[Interview] An elderly sage says the taste of life is bitter, but sweet

Posted on : 2014-01-31 00:57 KST Modified on : 2014-01-31 00:57 KST
Chae Hyun-gook, once a billionaire, became an anonymous sponsor of Korea’s democratization movement
 at Jogye Temple in Seoul’s Jongno district
at Jogye Temple in Seoul’s Jongno district

By Lee Jin-sun, associate director of the Hope Institute

The details of Mr. Chae Hyun-gook’s history are not well documented. The year of his birth is unknown. He is from Daegu. He graduated from Seoul National University with a degree in philosophy. He once was wealthy enough to be one of the top ten payers of income tax in the country. This was when he ran Heungkuk coal mining with his father, Chae Gi-yeup, in Gangwon province. Chae Hyun-gook was the last hope for democracy among the chased and prosecuted people during Park Chung-hee’s Yushin period in the 1970s. According to senior journalist Lim Jae-kyung, Chae was a financial sponsor of the progressive Changbi Quarterly and a “revolutionary figure” who provided housing for fired reporters.
Chae was an anonymous sponsor who offered shelter to those on the wanted list during the Yushin period: Kim Chi-ha, Hwang Seok-yeong, Ko Un and other anti-government intellectuals. He also financially supported many pro-democracy organizations. Chae is now chair of the foundation board that manages Gaewoon Middle School and Hyoam High School, but students rarely recognize him because he is usually tending the school gardens, clad in a pair of overalls. He had adamantly refused to have an interview but we finally met on Dec. 23 at a teahouse in Jogye Temple in central Seoul. He was a man in a black beret, dressed modestly, with a heavy backpack full of books. Despite his old age, he greeted us with a deep bow and spoke politely.

Lee Jinsun: Why do you turn down interviews all the time?

Chae Hyun-gook: I used to run a coal mining company… Many were injured and dead. I shouldn’t be complimented or given positive publicity.

Lee: Other coal mining companies had accidents too, didn’t they?

Chae: At the end of the day, it was my fault. The mining accidents were not natural disasters….

Heungkuk coal mining company was established in 1953. Chae helped his father run the charcoal production business in Seoul starting when he was 17. After 10 years, he then moved to Dogye in Gangwon Province to take over the business and stayed there until 1973.

Lee: You were a big entrepreneur when you were young, and are now a chairman of the school foundation. How is there almost no record of your 70-year life? Not even a biography or an autobiographical essay.

Chae: I will never write one. I asked the people around me not to. Such a story could depict me in a positive light. That is shameless. I am a person who shouldn’t be praised.

Lee: I am afraid to ask but I don’t know your age. In what year were you born?

Chae: My birth was registered as 1937, but I was actually born in 1935. I am 79 years old this year.

Lee: Nam Jae-hee, the former Minister of Labor and journalist wrote, "Chae hyun-gook is a street philosopher, an eccentric figure of the time, and a living Chun Sang-byung [a poet and intellectual who was involved in the East Berlin spy case. He experienced mental health problems after being tortured by the KCIA.]."

Chae: Hahaha… it means I am homeless.

Lee: Anyways, your case isn’t typically mainstream.

Chae: I’ve been treated as an exceptional student because my test scores were always high. Some even believed ‘Chae will succeed someday.’ I’ve had friends who were angry at me for ten years saying, ‘I thought you would succeed and become powerful, but we were deceived….’

Lee: Have you chosen not to be successful or is it that you couldn’t?

Chae: Power and money are both like drugs… so is knowledge. The more knowledge you have, the more money and power come along.

We wanted to hear the details. The interview with Chae was finally made after a long back-and-forth, but with a few conditions he requested. "Never use expressions like social entrepreneur or philanthropist." "Never glorify" and "never claim that I have helped anyone."

Lee: There are people who have received your help. Why do you hide this fact?

Chae: I’ve never helped anyone. Help is justified when working for others. I have only worked for myself and done my job. Someone may say he or she has gotten help from me, but I shouldn’t regard myself as their helper.

Lee: Why not?

Chae: Because such a way of thinking would corrupt me. If I maintain that what I’ve done for myself was for others, that is hypocrisy.

Lee: You were once considered a wealthy man, one of the top ten income tax payers. How about now?

Chae: I’ve been wealthy 6 times and broke 7 times. I am now at my seventh, being a rich man with empty pockets. I don’t have money, but I am the chairman of the school board. I personally own nothing. I am still a credit defaulter because I agreed to cover someone else’s debts but failed to.

Lee: Have you left the coal mining industry completely?

Chae: The business was dissolved in 1973 and was distributed to the employees. I don’t own anything.

Lee: How did you distribute the company?

Chae: I started to sponsor the coal miners and their children. Then, I built a free clinic and offered medical care…. when I dissolved the business I paid the miners their retirement in advance, assuming that would work 10 more years.

Lee: 1973 was when the coal mining business was booming thanks to the oil shock. Why did you go dissolve it?

Chae: Yes, the mining business was booming. However, after the dissolution of the National Assembly and the declaration of Yushin [in 1972], I had pondered the situation. I concluded that ‘I don’t have a reason to run a coal mining business anymore.‘ I am not a politician myself, but I had worked with a conviction that we should defeat the military dictatorship and live like human beings…

Lee: Don’t you think you should have sponsored the movement for democracy more by making more money?

Chae: I realized that making money is a very dangerous thing. Making money is a thousand times more addictive than spending money and people aren’t fully aware of that. The more money you makes, the easier you find ways to make even more money. It’s so strongly addictive that nobody can escape from it. No matter what type of business you run or for what reason, you will be dragged into it. Everything becomes subordinate to money, even justice or the purpose of life.

Lee: So, you mean you get addicted to it?

Chae: When you talk about addiction, you are conscious of how bad something is. This [making money] just becomes your religion. Making money and earning power and honor becomes a religion. So I thought ‘since I lack the abilities, I should stop before I reach a point where I can’t help myself.’

Lee: I’ve heard that your father, Chae Gi-yeup, also sponsored Korean independence activists while he was running a big business in China. How can you stay indifferent to money when making so much? Is that something you learned from your father?

Chae: My father didn’t take much pride in being successful because he had lived the distorted era under Japanese colonialism. He knew that being well off during the twisted times wasn’t something to be proud of. My father never told me about his past, so what I know now is based on what I’ve occasionally heard from other people.

 Dec. 23
Dec. 23
Chae gi-yeup, the only son of a wealthy farming family in Daegu, was the first graduate of Kyonam School. He was good friends with poet, Lee Sang-hwa’s family. Chae Gi-yeup went to Shanghai to meet with Lee’s oldest brother, General Lee Sang-jung, who carried on the independence movement in China. Although he failed to meet with the General, he remained in China and started a business. All of the ventures he touched were hugely successful, including a transportation business, a spinning mill, and a whiskey factory. He is known as a generous man who fed, accommodated, and sponsored the Korean independence activists. However, when he came back to his home country in 1946, he was empty-handed.

Lee: There were quite a few intellectuals under Japanese colonial occupation who leaned toward socialism. How about your father?

Chae: He was such a free spirit. He liked people regardless of their ideology or belief. My father didn’t believe in knowledge or ideology; neither do I.

Lee: You graduated from Seoul National University with a philosophy degree. How can you not believe in knowledge?

Chae: Once you have knowledge, you are likely to make ‘wrong but right’ statements. People think that only being mistaken is a fixed idea, but knowing something confidently is also a fixed idea. There is no such thing as one correct answer in this world. There are just many answers to a problem and it is very hard to even find a single answer during one’s lifetime. How can you dare to argue that only you are correct and everyone else is incorrect? This is a vice produced under the military dictatorship. Nobody used the phrase ‘the correct answer’ before Park Chung-hee’s regime. There is always an error in every ‘correct’ statement. 

Lee: Always?

Chae: Always! Where there is light, there is shade. Where there is right, there is wrong.

Although his father was a successful entrepreneur, Chae was never raised as a rich kid. Since the business had gone through severe ups and downs, his mother often had to make a living by sewing when his father’s whereabouts were unknown. Chae had a brother one year older than him who committed suicide when armistice agreement was signed to end the combat phase of the Korean War. He was in his last year at Seoul National University studying business. He didn’t even leave a suicide note. “We are now permanently separated. Live well…” These were his last words. Due to his brother’s death, Chae Hyun-gook became the only son of 11 generations at the age of 17.

Lee: I’ve heard that you joined a drama club at Seoul National University.

Chae: I didn’t join one, but made one. Back then, Lee Soon-jae [now a famous senior actor] was a third-year philosophy major and I was in my first year. I asked him, ‘Should we make a drama club?’

Lee: You said Lee Soon-jae was your senior classmate, but why do you talk down to him?

Chae: Soon-jae is a year older than me, but I’ve talked down to seniors and treated juniors honorably since middle school. I asked whether they wanted to be my friend or my senior. Once they agreed to be friends with me, I talked down to them… Talking down to juniors is Japanese habit, so I never talk down to juniors.

Lee: So, not talking down to juniors is originally a custom of Chosun [Korea]?

Chae: Toigye [an ancient Chosun dynasty philosopher] never talked down to Ki Dae-seung [a famous Confucian philosopher], who was 26 years younger than him. In fraternal relations, the old never talked down to the young. Talking down to a younger person is a Japanese habit.

Lee: Anyway, coming from a rich family background with an academic reputation, what made you perform on stage?

Chae: I thought the most popular form of education would be a play. Even though the audience may be illiterate or uneducated, the message can be delivered in an emotional form. I still view the current K-pop sensation and Korean wave as a ‘mass revolution.’ It is amazing that mundane, daily life and every instant can be sublimated into art.

After graduating from SNU, Chae chose to become a producer. He was the first open recruitment member of Joongang Broadcasting (the predecessor of KBS). However, he quit that job after three months because he was told to direct a drama glorifying former president, Park Chung-hee. Heungkuk coal mining was also in danger of going bankrupt at the time. Chae called around and took out a private loan with an annual interest rate of 360%; he saved the company from bankruptcy and dedicated himself to the business for the next ten years.

Lee: It was hard for you to establish your business. Didn’t you think it was too much to give up?

Chae: Not at all.

Lee: Some people plan to spend their money doing good after making a lot of money in business.

Chae: That is a complete lie. Does one have to make a lot of money to do good? That is an excuse. Making money entails doing bad things in the process. One saves money by giving away less.

Lee: Some entrepreneurs donate their private property and build public foundations.

Chae: (In an excited tone) There is no such thing as private property. It belongs to the whole world. I am not speaking on behalf of the Communist party. The world owns my property. I just temporarily borrowed and managed it well, so we should share it with the world. One’s property shouldn’t be handed over to his or her offspring. It wasn’t mine originally so it should be given to someone who is in greater need.

Lee: You have shared your riches with social activists, but some of them just took advantage of their past career to achieve fame and prestige, or completely betrayed you.

Chae: Money is like magic… I’ve always been afraid that money may harass, defeat, and idle people more than encourage them. However, that is the nature of humankind… Being cowardly is common and ordinary. People becoming cowards is natural, and so is going to jail.

Lee: Have you ever felt disappointed or resentful?

Chae: Anything that wins corrupts. There is no exception. Money and power are like magic. No matter how small the power is, it corrupts once wielded by an individual. Fathers were not corrupt in the beginning. They were once sons, but after becoming fathers and being strong they became corrupt…

Lee: Usually people of your age, the majority of the elderly who actively participated in the April 19 Revolution of 1960 and opposed the military dictatorship, have tended to become conservative as they’ve gotten older. They like to play black or white, regardless of the agenda; they diminish all other values but prioritize whether or not the agenda is pro-North Korea when evaluating. How should this generational conflict be solved?

Chae: There are two types of occupations, undertaker-like ones and midwife-like ones. Those who need conflicts and controversies to sustain their career are undertaker-like people. Professions like court judges, prosecutors, and lawyers rely on others’ misfortune to make a living and justify their existence. The worst of all is politicians who are desperate for strife. Ideologies and any other things are not important. They just can’t stand amicable relationships and are in need of discord to be influential… I refer to them as undertaker-like people.

Lee: And, what are midwife-like professions?

Chae: They are those who live simple lives but earn less, help their neighbors, and try to live happy lives... I feel sorry for the undertakers because their jobs themselves actually belong to midwife-like professions. Anyway, undertaker-like people who live off conflict are attracting the old to get involved. No matter how high one used to ride, we all become nothing more than old folks as we age physically and get weaker mentally. They are just taking advantage of the idle elderly people and disguising them as powerful figures. We have always been feeble… We can’t help but be feeble, when you look back at the way you were educated and you lived… we had to play unfair to survive and play dirty to live in comfort. They are throwing the feeble old people into difficulties. That is why the situation is getting worse.

Lee: Please share your advice with the young generation. How should the youth perceive the elderly these days?

Chae: Don’t overlook them. Mark carefully how the elderly are today so that you don’t become like them. Every young man is only an inch away from becoming like them, so the youth shouldn’t tolerate misdeeds by the old.

Lee: How do you view the recent “How are you nowadays” poster movement among students?

Chae: I thank them a lot! I greatly appreciate the youth’s efforts. It is just as well that young people are living… not being steered by the manipulated media, but raising their voices. I think the younger generation is trustworthy. Thanks to the youth, we, the old, can live even though we have made mistakes…

Lee: Jung Yak-yong [a Chosun era philosopher and scientist who spent most ] inscribed an epitaph long before he passed away. If you were to engrave one for yourself, what would you write?

 2013. (by Kang Jae-hoon
2013. (by Kang Jae-hoon

Chae:In my school, we have a rock with ’the taste of life is bitter‘ engraved. I brought the rock to have the school name written on it but one corner was broken. People said it is unfortunate to have the school name on a broken rock, so I engraved the statement instead. I asked “how does this sound?” to some students and they said it wasn’t bad. None of them misunderstood or took it pessimistically either.“

Lee: Is the statement pessimistic?

Chae: No, it is an active affirmation. Even bitter taste is a taste of life… Life rather deepens when the taste of it is bitter. That is simply the taste of living as a human being.

Lee: So, you would like ‘the taste of life is bitter’ engraved on your tombstone?

Chae:That alone would make me look like a hypocrite, so I need to add some more. ‘…but sweets taste sweet.’

Lee: ‘The taste of life is bitter… but sweets taste sweet.’ Then what are the sweets of life?

Chae: Hoping alongside others with a good soul and understanding each other… that is the sweetest.

Lee: I would be able to endure the bitterness of life for a while. The time I spent with you tasted "as sweet as honey."

 

Translated by Kim Hae-yoon, Hankyoreh English intern and transcribed by Kim Hye-young, student at Semyung Graduate School of Journalism

 

Please direct questions or comments to [english@hani.co.kr]

 

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